SuperBowl '07 Thread

[JetsJetsJets]

Grossman -

Comp. Pct. 30 (262/480 att)

Is'nt this like 54%?

[JetsJetsJets]

Anyway the guy does seem to win. A lot like Big Ben.

[kewl]

The colts kick and punt coverage has me a little scared, could be ugly if they don't tighten it up. Hopefully Hester doesn't goto town.

[Quack!]

Originally Posted by JetsJetsJets

Grossman -

Comp. Pct. 30 (262/480 att)

Is'nt this like 54%?

Yes... Yes it is. Sorry. I had just woken up when I looked all that stuff up. Guess something got lost in the transposition. It's 54.6 %. The 30 came from the attempts-per-game column. My bad.

[JetsJetsJets]

Originally Posted by Quack!

Yes... Yes it is. Sorry. I had just woken up when I looked all that stuff up. Guess something got lost in the transposition. It's 54.6 %. The 30 came from the attempts-per-game column. My bad.

No problem. Just did not think he was that bad!

[Paniro777]

Rex is also in a tough situation, in that, most young QBs in their first full year as a starter don't get this much criticism. They tend to get a lot of passes for mistakes on the field.

Most young QBs can cost their teams games here and there, play bad, and get the "well its a learning process, the team isn't goin anywhere this year (see Leinhart, V Young). Instead Rex gets "the bears are the best team in the NFC especially in defense and special teams, rex is costing them a superbowl trip."

I guess young QBs aren't usually put at the helm for their first full year on a team that is superbowl bound, but he sure doesn't get cut much slack.

[Da Rafsta]

Man...everyone's cutting up the Bears real bad. Because of it...I think my boys will be surprised who I root for more while we're watching the game. The dude helped the Bears win 13 F'en games, 2 playoff games. "He benefits from having such a great team!!" Yeah, well so have all the greats. Peyton can't do it himself...he's needed his team. Marino couldn't do it himself....he was missing that one element. Elway needed that element. All these guys benefited from a team that benefit from them, making them thus a Super Bowl team or not, as in Marino's case.

"He never won a game for the Bears and won't be able to win it in the Super Bowl for them either"

Well...the Bears are a team that don't need their QB to "win it for them". They're made so that they win by their QB not making mistakes. Their defense and run game takes care of the rest. It's a forumla that's worked for so long, defense and a run game.

I find in so many places where they say it'll be over by half time, the Bears getting killed. If anything...I see that as total disrespect to them Bears and people are asking to be heartbroken cause all I'm picturing is someone taunting a hungered grizzly and you know that can be a pretty nasty sight.

"He only goes deep and down the middle".

LMAO...I hear that a lot. Thing is...those are the toughest throws to make IMO. When he goes down the middle...they're usually 10+ yard passes, from what I've seen. But when folks say comments like that, what they are implying is that Rex can't make the throw to the sidelines where only his WR can get it with pressed coverage. I call BS cause I've seen him make that throw numerous times this season. That or they mean he can't hit his WR on a post out...I don't know. What I do know is that I've seen him make all the throws. Yes I've seen him lay some nasty eggs....but I've also seen him make some nice throws more times than the nasty ones.

What I have noticed however is this. Rex performs very well and wins when most doubt him. After that Arizona game...man, what an uproar over how he sucked. He comes back in his next game and has a damn near flawless game. They were chanting him one of the best in the league again, he just had a hick up his previous game. The next week he loses to Miami where Jason Taylor and the Miami defense owned him. Again, "he sucks....he's going to keep them from going anywhere, start someone else". What happens....his next game against the Giants who were still looking good before losing a good stretch of games, and he performs well again throwing 3 TDs, 1 INT.

Against New England they lose, he's booed, he then comes back and wins.....and the cycle starts over again. You get what I'm saying though. Every time he laid an egg....he heard about it and that just made his team really around him more, his coach rally around him more....he rallied back with them and he went out and did extremely well.

My point is...when folks are doubting him, it's when he's at his best and surprisingly looks to not even be sweating what's been said up until kick off time....as if no one even said a thing. Cool, calm, and collected.

I think it's total disrespect to the Bears for all this trash that's being talked about in regards to them, especially the score predictions. They're ludicrous. Vegas has it at a 7 point spread. But...everyone else, they're on a Manning high, Colts high and disregard how the Bears were a #1 seed with a better overall record compared to the Colts.

Expect to be dissapointed, that's what I've told my buds that will be watching the game with me...that's what I've told other members in other message boards.

[Quack!]

Originally Posted by Da Rafsta

What I have noticed however is this. Rex performs very well and wins when most doubt him. After that Arizona game...man, what an uproar over how he sucked. He comes back in his next game and has a damn near flawless game. They were chanting him one of the best in the league again, he just had a hick up his previous game. The next week he loses to Miami where Jason Taylor and the Miami defense owned him. Again, "he sucks....he's going to keep them from going anywhere, start someone else". What happens....his next game against the Giants who were still looking good before losing a good stretch of games, and he performs well again throwing 3 TDs, 1 INT.

Against New England they lose, he's booed, he then comes back and wins.....and the cycle starts over again. You get what I'm saying though. Every time he laid an egg....he heard about it and that just made his team really around him more, his coach rally around him more....he rallied back with them and he went out and did extremely well.

Kinda just sounds like inconsistency to me. I don't like Rex Grossman (granted, for no good reason), and would much rather see Manning finally walk away with a Super Bowl win after eight seasons of consistent, high-caliber play.

[Da Rafsta]

Originally Posted by Quack!

Kinda just sounds like inconsistency to me. I don't like Rex Grossman (granted, for no good reason), and would much rather see Manning finally walk away with a Super Bowl win after eight seasons of consistent, high-caliber play.

Okay...so what if Rex goes out and performs well, having a 3 TD, 1 INT like performance? Then what? He's proven many times that he's capable of doing it. I think that as long as his line holds up....he's money. If he starts being harrassed.....then he's in trouble.

[Paniro777]

Once the media starts somethin, it grows like a wildfire.

Peytons first complete year as a starter he threw 26TDs and 28INTs, more picks than TDs. He only completed 56% of his passes for a 71 QB rating.

You can look at a guy like Aikman, hall of famer. He didnt' throw more TDs than INTs until his 3rd year, and even then it was 11 TDs to 10 INTs. He had a 55 and 66 QB rating those first two years he started.

Now i think we can all say Grossman is no peyton coming out of college. Yet in his first full year starter, he's put up 23TDs and 20INTs with a 73 QB rating.

Now I know you can't take away any games, but if you could just remove those 3 games in which Rex threw tons of picks (4,3,3), he'd have 22TDs and just 10 INTs. Again, i know you can't take away those games, but aside from a few horrible games, Rex has been pretty good.

Throw in the fact that he doesn't have that great of a WR group and they've been hurt, he's done pretty good. Also consider that all defenses are still sending the house at him, he's done pretty good.

He can make every throw, his arm is not a question at all. He makes every throw, short, deep, outside, inside, posts, fly, doesn't matter.

And he can win games, he's single-handedly done it twice that I can think of off the top of the head.

But like I said, once the media starts a slant on a story, most of the masses just eat it up and run with it.

[Da Rafsta]

I have a question:

If Rex is the worst QB going into the Super Bowl, then what can you say about Indianapolis' defense? Sinc Rex "sucks and has no chance, he's going to choke".....so then Indy's defense should also likely look to lose the game for the Colts as well, no?

[Quack!]

Originally Posted by Paniro777

Peytons first complete year as a starter he threw 26TDs and 28INTs, more picks than TDs. He only completed 56% of his passes for a 71 QB rating.

That was his rookie season. He came out the next year and threw 26 TDs and 15 INTs, completing 62% of his passes and finishing with a rating of 90.7. He's been consistently great ever since. Do you take it as a given that Grossman will do that, or did you leave out every single other season Manning's played in order to make the stats favor your argument?

Look, I really don't care how good Rex Grossman may or may not be. I don't like Rex Grossman the character, his poor play just makes it that much easier to dislike him. Even if he was great I still wouldn't like him, just like I don't like Tom Brady. In the end, character does play a big part (which is why Marvin Harrison is so much cooler than Terrell Owens). When I look at which of these QBs deserves the win I see Manning, who always goes out and gives it his all--the dude has played with a broken jaw for Christ's sake, far ahead of Grossman, who was more concerned with partying on New Year's eve than preparing for the next game. For me that's all there is to it, because I'm really not a fan of either of these teams.

And Raf, I guess your argument makes sense, except for the fact that Rex Grossman has been marginally better in the playoffs while the Colts defense has completely taken people by surprise. Either could choke, but I think it'd be a bigger upset if it ended up being the Colts defense. It'll be fun to see which turns out to be the case.

[Paniro777]

Originally Posted by Quack!

That was his rookie season. He came out the next year and threw 26 TDs and 15 INTs, completing 62% of his passes and finishing with a rating of 90.7. He's been consistently great ever since. Do you take it as a given that Grossman will do that, or did you leave out every single other season Manning's played in order to make the stats favor your argument?

No, I didn't forget about any seasons, and i didn't taylor anything to my arguement. I'm comparing each QBs first full year as a starter. I didn't say "compare their rookie seasons", i'm comparing their first full year as a starter. Regardless of being in the league a few years, not playin much (6 games over 3 years was it)is not giving you experience. For instance, Matt Schaub has played as many games as grossman, but he's never been a full time starter. Best believe he isnt' going to be judged off his past numbers, he will be judged if and when he becomes a full time starter. My point was there have been quite a few great QBs that have had worse years their first full year starting than grossman. And i'm in now way comparing rex to peyton as far as saying he'll be that great. It has nothin to do with that. I've already said rex was no peyton coming out of college.

Originally Posted by Quack!

Look, I really don't care how good Rex Grossman may or may not be. I don't like Rex Grossman the character, his poor play just makes it that much easier to dislike him. Even if he was great I still wouldn't like him, just like I don't like Tom Brady. In the end, character does play a big part (which is why Marvin Harrison is so much cooler than Terrell Owens). When I look at which of these QBs deserves the win I see Manning, who always goes out and gives it his all--the dude has played with a broken jaw for Christ's sake, far ahead of Grossman, who was more concerned with partying on New Year's eve than preparing for the next game. For me that's all there is to it, because I'm really not a fan of either of these teams.

I hear you, and i'm not mad at your opinion, you don't have to like rex, i also dislike brady in the same way you dislike rex. We all have our players we just seem to hate for one reason or another.

Still, i have to respectfully disagree with your opinion. Now i like the colts, and manning, dungy, etc, and tend to agree peyton deserves a ring moreso than rex. But rex is deserved as well. Rex has really been dogged in the media after he had those couple bad games. Now I don't know how much of his press conferences you've seen, but i've watched them all this year after every game. He takes the criticism head on, doesn't shy away from it, and has had great responses. He's bounced back and had good games after his horrible games. He shows he can perservere thru adversity. Not to mention our WR group hasn't been 100% at any point this season really, save maybe a game or 2.

As far as the partying on new years eve. I personally like that he admitted that. You'd have to be somewhat knieve to think he's the only player who has had that same exact problem. He's just a straight shooter, and tells it like it is, and despite the wrong doing, I can respect that he was a man about it, didn't bullshit the fans, said he was wrong, and apologized.

Now as far as injuries. Manning has a little thumb injury, ok, thats nice. You didn't see Rex's finger bleeding in the 4th qtr of the seahawk game? Yea the one that he stayed in and ended up throwing the pass that got us into FG position on a 3rd and like 16? he's shows that toughness too, and will play hurt.

On top of that, he's came back from 2 season ending injuries. I'm sure you're aware of the rehab and work that is involved in coming back from that. He's done it twice, and has came back to lead his team to a SB in his first full year as a starter. If that doesn't deserve credit, well, man, tough crowd.

I'm not sayin you have to like him now, lol, but he doesn't get nowhere near the credit he deserves, especially now that the media has made him out to be the worst QB of all time.

[Da Rafsta]

My point is this...

We're forgetting all about Indy's regular season woes in terms of rushing defense, defense total. Why? Cause of their post-season performance.

Well, the same should be applied with Rex cause he hasn't laid an egg in the post-season.

Rex is 50% in his passing with 2 TDs, 1 INT. 2:1 ratio.

Indy's giving up 73 rushing yards/game while Chicago's averages 158 yard/game rushing.

Peyton is 63% in passing with 2 TDs, 6 INTs. That's an awful TD/INT ratio to have. Then going up against a Bears team that has that many pro-bowlers? That entire Bears D-line is horrid. Their linebacking core...Lance Briggs...that rookie that got 12 sacks...12!!!! Then you have big bad Urlacher. Hmmm....the only thing that doesn't have that much experience is their safety spots. But even then...this team plays very unified, as a team...just as it should be and we've seen the damage they can impose on their foes.

We can forget about Manning's un-Manning like numbers though...cause it's well Manning, and really...Rex is the sorriest bum QB heading into the Super Bowl.</sarcasm> Unfair...no other way to put it.


While Chicago's run defense didn't look too great against Seattle, overall...they've done well. In the passing game is where they've had the most success, being very stingy and not allowing much scoring through the air. Although...the guys they have faced up until now are no Peyton Manning with the weapons Manning has either.

In summary...the match up is excellent and Rex really shouldn't be bashed by the public and the media, saying he's the worst QB to go into the Super Bowl. If they're not ready to say that about Indy's defense....they shouldn't say that about Rex either. I think they're being unfair to the guy. I wish him a well in the game and that he produces, not just "not make mistakes" but actually plays like a QB as he's done before and help his team win.

[shivvy]

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